Two Italian Navy riflemen belonging to the San Marco Battalion, are currently under custody in India pending the investigation about the alleged killing of two Indian fishermen 30 miles off the southern Indian coast on Feb. 15.
The two military were on board the merchant ship Enrica Lexie as Military Security Team on Italian ships in areas under threat of pirates. Although the episode is still under investigation, the Italian Navy explained in an official statement that at about 12.30PM Italian Time, the merchant ship was approached by a suspect vessel with armed sailors that did not respond to warning signs.
In compliance with the stardand procedures, the security team on board the Enrica Lexie fired three sets of warning shots for deterrence whose effect was to discourage the pirates. The alleged pirate boat departed from the Italian merchant ship without signs “of obvious onboard damages.”
However, two fishermen died and Indian authorities denied that any of the crew members of the “suspect” vessel was armed.
The Italian merchant ship was ordered to dock at the port of Kochi waiting for it to carry out the investigation.
Even though it’s still difficult to piece fact together, the episode happened in international waters, on an Italian ship, hence the jurisdiction must be Italian. Furthermore, the two military should be subject to absolute judicial immunity.
Then, there are a lot of inconsistencies between the Italian and Indian versions, to such an extent the fact that the two fisherman were killed in another shooting, involving another ship, can’t be ruled out.
For instance, Italians stated a total of 20 rounds in bursts of warning were shot, none of which hit the vessel, whereas the Indians affirmed that the fishing boat was hit by 60 shots . If so, however, as some sources have pointed out, the boat would suffer serious damage and could hardly reach the port.
Moreover, the Indian authorities have refused to show the bodies of the two killed fishermen nor to perform the autopsy.
Although, not as dangerous as the Gulf of Aden and the Somali Basin, where ships, helicopters, maritime patrol aircraft and drones contribute to the anti-piracy operations, the seas surrounding southern India have been the scene of an increasing number of pirate attacks.
Friend, the boat on which the Indian fishermen died was an Indian boat, so Indian jurisdiction applies.
The Italian ship did not report the incident and tried to flee.
If you talk of judicial immunity for the Italian marines, you must admit first that Indian jurisdiction applies. Next, any sensible person would ridicule the idea that armed members of a foreign military would enjoy immunity.
The bodies of the dead fishermen have been shown on Indian TV channels several thousand times.
Suffice to say, at this point, most Indians have been stunned by the arrogance of your ridiculous country. Sadly, your arrogance has only made the outlook worse for your two soldiers. It seems like Italy does not want to respect Indian laws and is completely insensitive to the fact that 2 innocent people have been shot dead.
Along with bankruptcy and laziness, Italians have also recently been in the news for cowardice and lies in the Costa Concordia disaster. With this incident, you have shown that Italians will always find a way to sink lower than you think they can.
International law is not based on subjectivity, nor even on anger and clamor caused by an incident, but on a set of rules that apply regardless of race or nationality of those concerned.
People have to understand this, it’s not like if the government is making it up, It’s true, all people care about is race and nationality. thanks a lot for posting it …….
Well, there are some odd things. First the ship is more than 3000 Kms from Somalia, somali pirates range is around 1000 kilometers. If you look at piracy incidences …the region in question does not figure as a hotspot or warning area http://www.icc-ccs.org/piracy-reporting-centre/prone-areas-and-warnings
About legal jurisdiction I think it isnt as simple as ‘it happened in international waters, it was an italian ship, and hence jurisdiction is italian’ . The other ship is a registered indian vessel, so it could be said jurisdiction is indian by the same measure.
It’s not a hotspot, but another episode was recorded in the area on Feb. 15 (no way Somali pirates can attempt attack at such distance from Somalia):
About international law, it’s clear enough and the jurisdiction is that of the country where the alleged illicit act took place.
i found this links which explains better the jurisdiction aspect
from my reading of it (not a lawyer, but some paralegal experience) it seems that the indian officials may have been within their jurisdictional rights to board the ship and make an arrest (i.e. within 200 nautical miles of a declared exclusive economic zone. ) i think the best way out at present for the 2 italiani is to follow the indian legal procedure.
Thanks for the links.
I don’t have the time to read them, but someone might find them interesting.
David Cenciotti does not have time to read the material that may not be comfortable to his point ot view. He has clearly closed his mind and does want to confine himself to what he thinks as right and also rub it on others.
Uncorrect and simplistic. If I didn’t accept material that is not comfortable to my point of view I would simply moderate comments like yours or the one giving all the links.
On the contrary, I’ve explained in my post, what’s in my knowledge but, since I’m not a lawyer nor an expert of international law, and since maritime right is something a bit off topic for a military aviation-focused blog, I suggest my readers to make their opinion by their own.
That said, have you read that material? Are you sure it does contradict what I’ve stated?
Sometimes readers should study the subject and discuss it instead of criticizing on principle. The fact that you are from India, should not affect your objectiveness.
Sorry David, But I dont agree
And your article has only served to convince me that we are in the right. Every Indian newspaper has carried both the Italian and Indian versions; whereas you have given a one-sided story. Fact of the matter is that 2 Indian Citizens – bodies shown on TV – have been killed by Italians. Fact 2: Fishing boats are pretty common off Indian Borders – but not pirates. Fact 3: one incident does not make Kochi region pirate-infested. Fact 4: Our Foreign Minister has made our stance plenty clear – and it is also the general demand across India. Fact 5: As per our version, the incident occurred in Indian waters. Fact 6: Your nation does not possess a licence to kill as per their own wishes. Your arrogance is stunning, to say the least – especially when no less a personality than the Foreign Minister has made our position clear. But in a way, I am thankful to you – you have just convinced me that we are in the right. Thanks!
Fact 1) Even if the most probably were killed by the Italian marines, the fact that the bodies were shown on TV doesn’t prove anything more than two men were (unfortunately) killed.
2) Feb. 15 is listed as a piracy act in Indian waters. Is this coincidence? Maybe. For sure you can’t rule out piracy occurred there.
4) That is your FM opinion and your country demand. International law should be something independent from personal opinions or “general demand”. P
5) As far as I know, the GPS location of the ship was well outside the territorial waters that, by international laws, are 12 NM from the coast.
6) I concur, but can’t understand where arrogance is. The problem is with international laws and treaties, not with Italy requesting them to be applied.
I’ll try to make it clear. If they are guilty, they have to be judged and arrested. But at the end of a trial and in accordance with the international laws. That every country has to comply with even if there’s a different “general demand across” it.
In 1998, a USMC EA-6B Prowler, flying too low hit a cableway in Italy and caused the death of 20 people. As you can understand, the disaster caused anti-American protests in Italy. However, they were not arrested in Italy, since the international treaties gave the U.S. the chance to judge the crew at home.
As explained by the Wikipedia page:
“Italian prosecutors wanted the four Marines to stand trial in Italy, but an Italian court recognized that North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) treaties gave jurisdiction to U.S. military courts.”
Please, consider that in the 1998 there were no doubts about who had hit the tramway causing the crash.
Frank and Honest Answer…. and I concur on quite a few points. Best of all, both you and I want the same thing: Justice if the Italians are guilty. Good Enough for me – and it should be good enough for everyone concerned. Perhaps Richards has the best answer of all: lets wait and not jump to conclusions either way!
Trying to be as neutral as I can here, this was an accident waiting to happen, the blame here isn’t anyones other than the pirates that have made it neccesary to arm cargo ships. During an incident of this nature it is understandable that feelings are running high on both sides, at the moment details are scarce at best and we all know what the media can do to manipulate a story.
I don’t think the piracy issue is a solely Somalian issue it is a problem that has been around for hundreds of years and pirates come from any country. Indeed my own country participated in piracy hundreds of years ago, the city in which I work was formed on piracy and slavery.
My point is I guess lets wait until further details come out before jumping to conclusions either way.